Showing posts with label George Shiber. Show all posts
Showing posts with label George Shiber. Show all posts

Thursday, 14 February 2019

The Plenum and Physics (Writing to George Shiber)




[This text is from The Double Nature of Reality, which will be published at some later point. Two other texts are also included which formed part of a correspondence with George Shiber in 2016]


Dear George,

It occurs to me that I might have bowled you a bit of a googly with my opening gambit. So I’m going to explain a bit more of where I think I’m going with that gambit, why the route is worth pursuing, and how we are likely to end up talking physics.

As I suggested, there isn’t much we can say about the initial state of physical reality at a notional time of its emergence, if the various parameters of what can be said of it don’t have any existence. That’s the problem physics has when it is looking for causes and mechanisms.

However it is possible to talk about the initial state of reality in terms of logical argument, which is how it was done in antiquity. That’s why I chose to start the discussion from that point of view. They were familiar with talking about reality in terms of extreme states: does it exist? What is it? Is it one or two? If it is two is reality other than itself? Is reality complete in itself? Is physical existence a copy based on the pattern of reality itself? If it is a copy, has the nature of reality itself been compromised?

Whatever the initial conditions might have been, we can say that those conditions are at the edge of physical existence. Which is not to suggest that they actually occupy some kind of space at the edge of physical existence. Just that, since the initial conditions don’t participate in the conditions of our physical existence (extension, vectors, time, etc), then these conditions will, to us, appear to be something which we can find at the extremes of physical existence.

This is the root of the idea of the telos. It is about beginnings and endings – how things start and finish. When what is ultimately real is considered in this way, it is susceptible to logical analysis, and an idea of a prime mover beyond the properties of the telos itself is not required.

A discussion of this conception of the telos should be untarnished by the general deprecation of teleological argument in any kind of scientific analysis. We aren’t looking for purpose. But we are looking for the beginning, and how things might have unfolded from that beginning. The concept of the telos as a plenum, a pleroma undefined by the kind of parameters we find in our physical existence, as opposed to the idea that physical existence  just appeared ex nihilo, can be discussed. Nothing as absence is very hard to discuss, except in the context of its opposite. In fact it cannot reasonably be conceived without that context.

The discussion of Aristotle places his laws of thought into a wider context. The laws represent tools in the Greek dialectical armoury. So do the techniques used by Plato. But they are quite different and produce different kinds of argument and result in different conclusions. They belong to the same armoury (a discussion for another time). It is possible to understand some things with Plato’s approach which would not be possible with a rigorous application of Aristotle’s laws of thought. It isn’t the case that one logical approach is correct, and the other not. But they are appropriate to different contexts.

A plenum can be understood as identical with itself, and so, in that sense, can be thought of as consistent with the first of the laws of thought. But its properties, as understood from the point of view of physical reality, cannot be self-consistent, since it is beyond definition in physical terms. So the plenum must have a paradoxical aspect (literally meaning it is beyond human understanding), and therefore must breach the other two laws of thought (it can be one thing or its opposite; and it may also be neither one thing or its opposite).

There are several ways we can go from here. One is to take the view that physical reality represents a partial view of the plenum. Or can be understood as an assemblage of partial views of the plenum. It contains consistencies and regularities, but at a granular level (particularly), it behaves with apparent inconsistency, being best understood in terms of probability. That is how the plenum is, or at least the best way it can be understood by us. It isn’t one thing or the other. But occasionally its granularity looks like one thing or the other. And sometimes both at the same time. We can describe what is going on in terms of probabilities, which is how physics handles it, but it is not understood except in terms of mathematical description. The idea of the plenum, as established through a purely logical analysis, gives us insight into how the universe is actually operating.

It could be argued that physical reality behaves as it does at the quantum level because, for all practical purposes, the plenum has no size. So, at the quantum level, we are looking more closely at the nature of the plenum as it is, or rather as it must, on account of its nature, look to us.

Quantum entanglement might have a similar basis, on the ground that what is happening is actually happening in the plenum, rather than in physical space. Despite it having no size, it must necessarily be (in a sense) distributed throughout space and time.

You see where I’m going. So, in addition to talking about initial cosmological conditions, we could, on the basis of this notion of the plenum, talk about Bell’s Theorem; Einstein, Podolsky, Rosen; and Klein-Kaluza. We could also talk about how and why Maxwell’s equations can be derived from Klein-Kaluza, and why the maths of Klein-Kaluza has two states.

Best, Thomas

(Fall, 2016)

Tuesday, 11 December 2018

In Search of Space



  1. Nice to have Heisenberg on my side on the universalis of geometry crusade! I hope you are heading into a warm midwinter
  2. ..., Geometry and mathematics points us in the direction of what is important about how physical nature is. We are both agreed about that. But I differ in that I do not think that nature can be explained in terms of what is expressed geometrically and mathematically in physical nature. What I mean is that physical nature is a representation of a reality which exists beyond physics, beyond scalar values, angles, etc. As a representation, its nature requires to be understood in terms of the dimensionless reality which gave rise to it. 
  3. Have I referenced this article before?
      Pythagorean Triples and the Generation of Space
    It gives a lot of clues as to how I am thinking, and how I think scholars and divines thought about reality and the physical world in the third and second millennia BCE. 

    The weather here is much milder (in general at least) than is normal for this time of year. But we know from experience that full-on winter can slam into us at the drop of a hat! Thanks for asking.

How is it possible to derive anything from something which has no definition? With no definition, it contains (in potential) all things which might be defined. The principal goal of ancient cultures was to make things 'meet and agree'. A secondary goal was to establish rational relationships between things. Since Plato argued that 'one thing' lay behind the world of representation, that one thing had to come into a relationship with itself, if representations of such relationships were to come into existence. Does infinity have no size? As infinity, it has no size. But as *infinity as representation*, it may be any size, and may come to be in a rational relationship with itself (I'm thinking of Cantor's discovery that one infinity might be bigger than another).

  1. I wrote two or three papers on physics for George Shiber, back in 2016. We had some interesting discussion by email. The exchange broke down when he insisted that something (I forget what that something was) possessed an objective reality, and absolutely necessarily. I realised that he had no sense of the possibility that there is a transcendental aspect to nature, and the way it works. In another conversation, in 2017, the philosopher Adrian W. Moore exposed the same weakness by describing something as a ''deeply mathematical fact", as if mathematics had an existence above and beyond other aspects of reality. 
  2. My argument is that all we experience is some form of representation of the ur-reality, which is - at least directly - inaccessible to our understanding. All phenomena consists of such representations, and combinations of them. Mathematics is one such phenomenon, and another is geometry. The point of the post 'Pythagorean Triples and the Generation of Space' was to illustrate how the Pythagorean triples might have been understood in antiquity. They knew that the sides of the triangles were not commensurate with each other, but the squares were. Just minus space. Which pointed to another level of reality. 
  3. So yes, I'm with Heisenberg up to a point. I would however rephrase it as:

  1. "If nature leads us to mathematical forms of great simplicity and beauty—  they reveal a genuine feature of nature." What Heisenberg says about us not being able to help but think that they are 'true' is neither here nor there, and more or less meaningless. What we can conceive of limits our understanding. What is true is most often beyond our understanding. 
  2. There are many pointers to the nature of the ur-reality in mathematics and geometry. By using reciprocals for example, we can convert addition into multiplication, and subtraction into division. As a schoolboy I found this to be absolutely amazing, and I couldn't understand why it didn't strike anybody else in the same way. But most schoolboys are being trained in the art of being asleep for a lifetime, while apparently awake. The phenomenon is a pointer to the kind of relationships the ur-reality establishes with itself. Logarithmic functions are of course the inverse of exponential functions. Such a huge set of  clues as to how nature is structured! But all of it points to another place, where all things meet and agree.  

  3. Thomas Yaeger, December 11, 2018.